Monday, October 1, 2007

A penny for their thoughts?

Last week's recommendations to council by the Board of Control included Item 7 (PDF):

That the Civic Administration BE REQUESTED to prepare a report for consideration in the 2008 Budget deliberations on possible improvements to the Council Chambers and Committee Rooms at City Hall.
Council chambers are in fact inhospitable to spectators, if not to councillors, but it's not poor sight-lines or acoustics that keep public attendance at council meetings down to a handful or two — "it being noted that at the public hearing associated with this matter there were no members of the public in attendance to speak to these matters" is not an uncommon record. The general disinterest of the public in live performances by council should also be read as a disinterest in spending their taxes to accommodate it — any money spent on council chambers is money spent on councillors' vanity. Taxes would be far better spent on updating the city's website to update council and committee minutes in a timely manner and available in a more accessible and convenient document format. But if they do go ahead with the inevitably over-priced upgrade — which they will — let's hope at least that they keep around the thousand-dollar "ergonomic and adjustable" chairs…

Postscript: Should we be surprised that the public doesn't bother to watch councillors hem and haw comprehensively over agenda items like this?

The "Council of Canadians" may be a witty epigram, but there can't be too many Canadians in its council if it has to resort to blind-siding them through a handful of politicians and their bylaws.


Elaine said...

Butch, why are you putting all the crime stories from the London free press on alt london lately? It find it....quizzical.

Were you thinking the socialist crowd you pander to would be coming up with good excuses as to why these criminals were committing the crimes?

I haven't seen any of them screaming yet that the government is causing these crimes to happen. Not a yelp out of one of them blaming it on poverty or Harper.

I am thinking someone that uses that alt site might have been the victim of one of these crimes that was reported in the free press.

I have observed that usually changes the opinion, drastically, of the leftard's, when they or one of their family members are a victim of crime.

It is no more of that weeping and wailing about the perpetrator being a victim, and misunderstood. Nope when that happens, they just want to take a hammer to the perpetrator, just like any other normal person.

That must be terribly confusing for the leftard socialist when they are a victim of crime.

Anonymous said...

elaine, without doubt you're the most brain-dead person in all of southwestern Ontario, maybe even Canada -- OK let's go North America, although there's some real dummies down in the Ozarks in Hillbilly Country.

Any semi-normal person would be too embarassed to post the meaningless dogshit that you continually put up.

Regarding the crime stories, they're posted on A DAY BEFORE they appear in the Free Press because I get them directly from the police department, just as the Free Press does, but the stories appear in their NEXT-DAY print edition.

It's called breaking news, you fool. You can read it FIRST on Alt-London or you can it a day later in Quebecor's Daily-Jerk-Me-Off.

eg. Two swans killed during a break-in at Storybook Gardens will be in Thursday's Freep. It's been up on Alt-London since noon on Wednesday.

P.S. How in the bejeezus did you get so friggin' stupid? Did a truck run over your head when you were knee-high to a grasshopper or something. Or were you just born as dumb as a bag o' rusty hammers?

Elaine said...

Butch, you are downright fucking delusional if you think that little commie pinko website of yours is in direct competition with the London free press.

I can see by your advertising section that they are beating down the bytes to be seen on your site.

Not that the freeps aren't leftards too, but alt doesn't even rate a decible on the old reader radar.

They have how many letters to the editor? and you have three contributors, that in all likelihood are the same person.

Anonymous said...

I rest my case ol' shit-for-brains, elaine.

In competition with the Freeps?

Let's put it this way, it's not difficult to scoop their print edition.

And rest assured many people from the Freep are on alt-london each and every day. In fact, they've told me they check it out daily for possible stories. So that puts alt squarely on the rader screen -- same as you can't stop looking at it.

Sorry to wake you up to straighten you out, you crazy ol' dingbat.

Try hanging upside down like a bat for a few hours every day to get some fresh blood coarsing thru that stagnant noggin of yours.

Elaine said...

The only reason I read that pinko commie site is because I like to make fun of it, ridicule it.

Butch, I haven't seen many of your so called scoops making it into the freeps, and if they happen to, they are on on page c-10 right beside the obituaries.

Your scoops are all from disgruntled city union workers out to stick it to the boss. Not a story of interest to anyone but the union sticker and the union stickees.

Now that your a flippin' bigwig ambASSador for the city of London, I can't wait to read your kowtowing articles on every stupid idea that comes along, compliments of city council.

Anonymous said...

Once again, elaine rat poison is proven wrong. As always and always will be. Alpha and Omega.

elaine, you are a certified dullard with the biggest mouth in London.

The front page, above-the-fold headline story in today's London Free Press ("Storybook murder most fowl") was first reported on Alt-London yesterday before noon. I don't think the Freep even put the story online.

So the York Street Rag Factory gets scooped again and again and again. How is that possible when they've got x-number of employees?

Regarding you ridiculing, all you ever do is make yourself look like the horse's ass that you are and always will be, because no one in the universe takes you seriously.

You have zero credibilty. None. El Zippo. And the weird thing is you know you have no credibility, but persist with your dogshit.

Case closed.

Regarding kowtowing to anyone, that's never going to happen. My philosophy is to give credit where credit is due and criticism where criticism is warranted.

Unlike you, that criticizes everything helter-skelter, except those that actually deserve criticism.

What a useless knob you are, elaine. You are truly indebted to your Creator because, to date, you're consuming oxygen without doing something worthwhile while consuming it.

Go get drunk and be somebody.

Elaine said...

Me a dullard? you diss like a teletubie.

I can see the national newswpapers picking up on the two slain swans found floating tits up in the Thames.

It is going to be bigger than the Princess Diana story.

Face it, who wants to hear pinko commie stories except pinko commie people. It has nothing to do with the reality of life. It is all just airy fairy, pie in the sky junk, that has regurgitated since the late 60's.

Not too many grownups believe that shit you spew.

Elaine said...

...ah Butch, the freeps have all the stories you were printing from the police station in their breaking news articles, so I have no idea how you think you are scooping them, ditto for the radio stations who always have the stories on first.

It is sad that you truly believe you are in competition with the freeps.

The freeps were slow getting in on the new media, but they seem to be getting keen on exploring it, and using it to draw in advertisers dollars.

The freeps is more open to allowing difference of opinions, than

I hope you enjoy eating their dust, as their interactive online blogs grow in leaps and bounds.

Anonymous said...

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!

More insane chickenshit from London's biggest fuck-tard.

The Free Fress blogs suck the high hard one, only attracting a few comments from nutjobs like you.

You call their blogs "interactive." Hogwash! Try and put up a story, elaine.

Can't do it, eh?

Oh well, lay some more brain-dead honey slop on us.

We're dying to hear it!

You're just like the friggin' Village Idiot.

If I owned a carnival, I'd hire you, toss you in a cage, feed you bananas and take you on the road.

Hey, how's that trust fund for our soldiers going, that your hero Orser was going to help you with?

Ha ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!

Elaine said...

You just have to give them a chance there Butchy boy.

They sure as hell have scads more people than your little pinko commie site has reading it, and posting.

They also have the letters to the editor section, where many, many....many, are offering their opinions and counter opinions.

I suggest now that your time will be taken up ambASSarding London to the rest of the world, you stick to promoting your dead baseball players and Guy's leaking old boat. I am sure there are five people in London that read it in between diaper changes.

Anonymous said...

OK, elaine, I'll try and give the big, bad, useless as tits on a bull London Free Press a chance.

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!

I mean like they've only been in business for 148 years and have oodles of staff (relatively speaking) on the payroll to finally get around to putting together a decent blog. But it'll never happen, not as long as you're posting there.

So, now the Free Press is your favourite newspaper and Orser and Van Meerberegen are your favourite members of council.

Following suit here, your favourite food must be shit sandwiches with a diesel fuel chaser!

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!

Poor ol' mixed-up elaine. Why don't you come clean and tell your friends on London Fog that you're secretly a longstanding member of the Marxist-Leninist Party and that you're secretly filing reports on them every day! The problem is, nobody reads them!

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!

Give it a rest Honey Pot, my ribs can't take any more of your insane babbling! Change your name to NutJob#1 and maybe I'll start taking you seriously!

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!

Elaine said...

No, I used to be a leftard, fell for it hook, line and sinker...until I observed how retarded and weak it makes a country. The leftard sense of entitlement, without responsiblity. The constant whining and instilling a sense of uselessness in the people to use as a weapon to control them...that pretty well sums up the left.

The free press is not my favorite newspaper, but it is the only game in town. I read the national post first, the globe& mail second, Toronto star, Toronto Sun, New Brunswick telegraph journal, Irish times, The Scotsman, New York times,Ha'Aretz [ etc, etc....hey I even read your favorite Aljazeera.

Elaine said...

....oh and I really like reading the articles on this site. Though I don't agree with everything, they do have a tendency to make one think.

Unlike that little pinko commie site that you run, that is fodder for the fools.

Anonymous said...

Left-tard, Right-tard, who gives a rat's ass?

You're just an all around pin-head fuck-tard.

The only thing you read is the comics.

Elaine said...

Butch, did anyone ever suggest to you that it might not be a good idea to drink and diatribe at the same time?

Afterall you are an ambASSador for London now, and they can't have you spewing your chunks all over the net.

When you are sober, we will debate your leftardness in a more civil manner.

Anonymous said...

elaine, you're a one-trick pony who is obsessed with meaningless labels.

You're an Internet troll who never posts anything of significance. As a result you have no influence, just plenty of flatulence.

But you're still fun to stick it to. Unfortunately, it's like debating the Village Idiot, no doubt because you are the Village Idiot.

MapMaster said...

While we enjoy keeping comments on the London Fog open in an unmoderated forum, couldn't you two take this somewhere else for the sake of anyone who might want to comment on the posted subject? An S&M fetish house to relieve the tension, for example?

And, no, I don't care who started it.

Anonymous said...

Point well taken, MapMaster.

Notice that the Freeps finally poped that snow plow story on its front page (below the fold), after alt-london first posted it on August 10, 2007.

Two months after the fact ain't bad for the Freep.

Also received a phone call this morning from the Boston Globe about an alt-london story.

It'll run early next week. Re: Labatt Park (1877) and Fuller Field (1878) in Clinton, Massachusetts.

The Freeps will pick up on it next year sometime, months after it's gone coast to coast stateside.

MapMaster said...

I saw the Freeps story today, and I have to say congratulations to Butch again for pre-empting (by far) the city's regular media. As much as I might often differ with the conclusions they reach, Alt-London is at least as valuable a resource for finding out what's going on in London as our daily newspaper.

And, Elaine, Butch ain't no "tard" of any sort… yeah, he's wrong more than half the time about things, but he's generous with his thoughts and sources at least.

Elaine said...

That is your opinion Mapmaster, and you have a right to have it.

Butch is a tard, that is my opinion.

Butch has his sources amongst the socialist cabal at city hall, who can't go to the free press in case they are publicly named. That doesn't surpise me, nor impress me.

Anonymous said...

Mapmaster, if I'm wrong more than half the time -- which I don't buy for a second -- point out a few instances where I've been wrong.

Are you talking facts or opinion?

Regarding elaine's regular and ongoing nonsense, I'll ignore it because she's always wrong about everything and whatever she posts, says or does; she has no redeeming value whatsoever.

She's an Internet troll, pure and simple. A "gift" from Satan to Southwestern Ontario. Like cholesteral in the veins. A blight on mankind. A fly in one's soup. A pimple on one's ass. A tumour in the brain ...

MapMaster said...

Well, here we go again I guess. But I should have clarified: it's opinions to which I was referring, not facts. I have no reason to suppose that you have every been on the wrong side of the facts in your reporting — quite the contrary, I have every reason to suspect that they are always at least correct to the level of significance to which I and most readers would ascribe them (and if there have been errors in facts, they would have been accidental). That is certainly one thing that I do respect about Alt-London and yourself — that, and your diligence and interest, as well as your civil exchanges with me and your willingness to listen and respond.

Elaine and I might have different definitions of the word "tard," but I can certainly appreciate the time, effort and ability that go into recruiting and maintaining sources of information. I would add, however, that the distasteful part of the work is sometimes accommodating those sources, either personally or through supporting their political agendas (I say "sometimes" because I'm also aware that sometimes you don't have to do anything at all because there are sources who will approach one just to get an airing). There you have me at a couple of advantages (not to discount others such as experience and acumen): (1) I'm opposed to the role of politics in general and would prefer to minimize its influence period, from any quarter; and (2) there's a far greater store of political confidantes from the left on the civic scale than from the right (I wouldn't say that there's exactly a "socialist cabal" in London, but the sentiment expresses the phenomenon close enough to work). But I should also confess that I'm not above it either, except that I haven't the time, energy or ambition at least for the time being to foster those relationships.

I'm not trying to impugn your integrity any more than my own if I were in the same situation, but let me cite one instance in which I believe your opinion was wrong even where your facts and some of your premises were correct: when Gina Barber and seven other councillors voted against the yellow ribbon decals on public vehicles, you exalted their decision as a "courageous" defense of free speech, when they had taken precisely the opposite stance regarding free speech back in July by voting to put the rainbow flag in front of city hall. Not only does this fit a recurring pattern in which Barber receives unseemly approbation (which may or may not be in exchange, consciously or unconsciously, for communications), but it's also dead wrong. There was obviously nothing in the least courageous about the decision: goodness knows she has a vocal, if not large, constituency to support her. So do all politicians, for that matter — there's rarely anything done or said in politics that's courageous.

I do usually disagree with your opinions or conclusions, but I have to admit that it's pretty easy for me to criticize your methods or rhetorical practises from the armchair. If I ever get myself more seriously into politics, well hey, I don't know that I'd be doing things that much differently except from a different perspective. So all that above can be taken either as a back-handed compliment or as a weaselly reproach. Just saying, that's all…

Butch McLarty said...

Mapmaster, regarding the yellow ribbon decals, I made the point that it's not an apple to apples compariosn with the Pride flag flying at city hall.

There my be some similarities but there's also several differences that are pretty obvious.

The "socialist cabal" name calling -- Tom Gosnell's actually -- is a bit of a joke.

Anytime you see anyone resorting to the constant labelling of people, you know that their arguments are weak and that they've made the mistake of being captivated by an ideology that limits their ability to understand what's going on.

Regarding sources at city hall, I've had dozens from across the political spectrum dating back to 1990.

If you and I disagree half the time, that's fine by me. Somecalling calling the opinion of another "wrong" is far different that challenging facts.

Regarding Alt-London -- as elaine puts it -- being some sort of pinko or socialist site (Christ, Canada is a socialist country. We live in cities with laws we must all live under. We must cooperate. etc. etc. etc.) is, as usual with her rabid dogma, not accurate.

There's parts of the Freedom Party platform-philosophy, for example, that I agree with. On taxi lixensing for example.

There's also parts of the Greens, Conservative, Liberal party and NDP platforms that I agree with, parts that I don't.

The one weakness of this site, in my view, is its ever-recurring adherence to a one-size-fits-all libertarian-style ideology, to the point that it becomes both repetitive and boring.

Non-stop criticism or whining always is.

Do you folks use the library, use your OHIP cards, partake of the many other government-funded services that are available?

If so, why?

MapMaster said...

Plenty of libertarians would beg to contest our adherence to libertarian-style ideology, but that's OK since I wouldn't want to adhere to it anyway. But I see your point about non-stop criticism — except that government in London, Ontario and Canada is so far entrenched in progressive or socialist norms that I don't see that there's much alternative to criticism if we're to dig ourselves out of this pit. In any case, there should be something starting out of the gate in town next year that'll be a little more pro-active and less critical.

Do I partake of government-funded services? Of course! There's hardly any getting around it for one thing and for another sometimes it's practically the only option (health care).

MapMaster said...

I do also happen to think that some opinions are just plain wrong — not unformed or ignorant, but just plain wrong sometimes.

Ian Scott said...


"The one weakness of this site, in my view, is its ever-recurring adherence to a one-size-fits-all libertarian-style ideology, to the point that it becomes both repetitive and boring."

As a libertarian/anarchist, I don't find this site to hold to true libertarian ideals by all of it's contributors.

Perhaps you could define what YOU mean by "libertarian?" I've come across a few different ideas and interpretations that have nothing to do with what I would call "libertarianism."

Indeed, true libertarianism (or my version of it) IS "one size fits all," for it's based on consent and individual rights.


"Plenty of libertarians would beg to contest our adherence to libertarian-style ideology,"

True - but I like you all as individuals anyhow ;)

"Do I partake of government-funded services? Of course! There's hardly any getting around it for one thing and for another sometimes it's practically the only option (health care)."

And I agree with you on this. There are some things that in order to survive and not be carted off to jail and not have the time I value with my loved ones, or doing things I love, I simply must acquiesce in some ways, to Government demands. However, I'm always looking for ways that I can, that are consentual with other individuals, to do things that are separate and apart from what the Government says.

But there are some things - like not bothering to participate in elections, that I easily do - as there is no risk of penalty.

So, why do those who at times, speak of libertarianism or anarchism, find voting to to be something that they should be interested in?

I don't get that, anymore.

MapMaster said...

Well, I suppose I take a rather laissez-faire view to voting. Goodness knows that people have an incentive, however manufactured, to vote. And given that we're stuck with representatives, I'd prefer to see some sort of check enforced on how they're chosen, however inadequate or flawed that process might be. So although I'm fascinated with the phenomenon of democracy itself, I'll indulge myself for the time being with concern for who and what people vote for instead of for the process itself.

Although I won't be voting this time around except on the MMP question, I have been fortunate enough to know and meet some individuals who I do actually trust to understand and practise the proper constraints of government as I understand them if elected. Politics is with us whether we like it or not and, most unfortunately, devolution of the state's powers will require political compromises until it can be effected. It's a sordid business, and I don't blame anyone for not participating.

Don't worry, Ian, I won't be asking you to vote for me when I run for prime minister :)

Anonymous said...

Well, if I actually felt like several people on this site, I would see my options as the following:

1. Slash my wrists forthwith.

2. Move deep into the Canadian wilderness to avoid government intrustion as much as possible.

3. Move to some remote island in the world to avoid government intrusion as much as possible.

4. Enjoy a life of frustration by actively trying to turn Canada into a right-wing meritocracy -- something that will never occur in Canada -- where junk yards exist next to private schools (there are no public schools) and residential areas (zoning by-laws are non-existent), garbage pickup is non-existent, everyone carries guns as there is no police force, nor taxes. Water is only available in bottled form, all sewage is handled by septic tank and environmental laws are non-existent.

5. Move to a small redneck town in the southern U.S., join the Republican Party and adopt George W. Bush as my Lord and Savior.

6. Continue to ridicule, whine, snivel and complain ad nauseam about the nanny state because it somehow soothes my inner need to feel superior to the world and stokes the rebel inside me.

MapMaster said...

Hmmm… those items are made up of rather contradictory motivations and objectives. Not sure how many types of people you're trying to describe…