Thursday, July 20, 2006

David Warren:

Lebanon has a prosperous future in alliance with Israel and the United States. It has no other prosperous future. The idea appears to be seeping into the Lebanese ruling classes. Even the once radical Druze leader, Walid Jumblatt, seems to get this.

For Israel, there is no turning back. It is a categorical imperative: for if the Israeli military isn’t facing Hezbollah and Hamas, then Israel’s civilians have to face them.
See also The war of 2006

29 comments:

Honey Pot said...

The Lebanese people do not seem to have enough sense to understand harbouring and promoting the terrorist group Hezbollah has led the destruction of their country. Are they that stupid, that they can't see that the world community is sick to fucking death of these terroirist groups. Canada, the caring stupid country that it is, will not even listen to the moaning and pissing of the terrorist any longer. Do they not get it? If Israel blows them off the face of the earth, the rest of the world is going to go...Oops!They don't seem to have enough brains to understand who their allies should be. It will take 30 years to rebuild Lebanon, if there is anything to rebuild after Israel is done with them.

Ian Scott said...

Unfortunate that David Warren decides to bring up 1982, and at the same time, ignore all other dates in history.

Of course, this is standard for those that simply want to "support" something, without all the facts being made available. It is reprehensible that so many "Israel Lovers" choose to ignore everything else but simply stop in history at their own chosen dates that will support their thesis, whilst ignoring what happened the day before their chosen date.

"Lebanon has a prosperous future in alliance with Israel and the United States. It has no other prosperous future."

Ahh, nothing like political blackmail, huh?

Honey Pot said...

Lebanon has no future, unless of course the muslim world gets its wish, and wipes out everyone who is non-muslim.

Have you not been listening to the rallying cry of the terrorist? Their wish is to cleanse the earth of the infidels, that would include you Ian.

What are the chances of the civilized world allowing that to happen Ian? You think the civilized world are going to go down without a good fight? The muslim terrorist have no word in their language for tolerance, and they don't want one.

Ian Scott said...

"Lebanon has no future, unless of course the muslim world gets its wish, and wipes out everyone who is non-muslim."

Right. And that's how come Hezbollah has been concentrating on the 40% Christian populationof Lebanon, huh?

Ooops. 40% of the population of Lebanon, the Christians, seemed to have been doing ok for the past few years.

You really ought to actually study some of the politics of the region, and get to know the issues on both sides if you want to be seen as providing any credible opinion.

Honey Pot said...

May 6, 2003 - A Jordanian convert to Christianity was killed in a bomb blast that was believed to target a European missionary couple living in Tripoli. Jamil Ahmed al-Rifai was killed instantly when a 4.5 pound bomb exploded in a garden behind the apartment complex where both al-Rifai and the missionary couple lived. (Open Doors)

November 21, 2002 - A US Christian & Missionary Alliance medical worker was shot to death as she went to work at a Christian maternity clinic in Sidon. No group has yet taken responsibility for the murder of Bonnie Weatherall, but it is believed Sunni Muslims were behind the killing. The maternity clinic where Mrs. Weatherall worked had received various threats in the weeks prior to her death. (ANS)

August 21, 2001 - 75 Christian dissidents were released by the army of Lebanon. (see August 2001) (CWN)

August 16, 2001 - Christian journalist Antoine Bassil of MBC was arrested by Lebanese security in a crackdown against Christian dissidents critical of Syria's continued influence in the country. (CWN)

August 2001 - 200 Christians who oppose Syria's enduring influence on the country were arrested in early August. (CWN)


Ian you know why they don't kill all the christians. They fucking well know the USA would blow them off the face of the earth. Do you not get it? They hate anyone who is non-muslim. This is Syria and Iran, running the show. Those two countries are well known for their tolerance for non-muslims. It is Lebanons best interest to kick the fucking Hezassholes to the curb.

Ian Scott said...

"Ian you know why they don't kill all the christians. They fucking well know the USA would blow them off the face of the earth. Do you not get it?"

Your utter ignorant knowledge of world politics. America started blowing up Christians for attacking Muslims in Eastern Europe.

Your utter ignorant knowledge of the recent history of Lebanon.

Honey Pot said...

...and you know all Ian, but can you make a decision? I know we are talking about a part of the world, where their idea of a fun night out, is going to a public stoning or beheading. They revere that like we do our hockey.

I know it is in the best interest of the world, to rid Lebanon and Palestine of the Hezassholes, and the Hanus.

Ian Scott said...

" ...and you know all Ian"

Your fallacy of sarcasm.

"but can you make a decision?"

I certainly can. I make decisions every day.

"I know we are talking about a part of the world, where their idea of a fun night out, is going to a public stoning or beheading."

Really? And the last stoning or beheading in Lebanon was when, exactly?

"I know it is in the best interest of the world, to rid Lebanon and Palestine of the Hezassholes, and the Hanus."

Perhaps it is in the best interests of the world to rid it of insane thinkers or faith based believers that assert their opinions without ever checking their premises or the facts. Faith and belief, whether it is Hezbollah and their actions based on their irrational belief is just as idiotic as Canadians who have irrational beliefs and want humans destroyed.

Honey Pot said...

I'll give you that Ian, all organized religions are used as an instrument of hate and oppression. Some are just a wee bit more primitive than others. I think people should have a right to their weird religions, (which they all are), as long as they don't see a need for me to conform to it.

It is a case of destroy, or be destroyed Ian. If you have a religion that has instilled in you the virtues of killing other's, rewards your family for you strapping a bomb on your back and going amongst people, who don't want to die, that religion got to go. I feel they have a right to do themselves in, but they don't have the right to take anyone else with them.

Brent Gilliard said...

Don't you think it's a sort of hyperbolic to call it "a case of destroy or be destroyed"?

I mean, Egypt, the UAE, Saudi Arabia, and a couple other Arab countries condemned Hezbollah.

It seems a bit unfair to destroy the non-terrorist Muslims just to save a few thousand people from terrorism.

Honey Pot said...

Well I think Egypt, the UAE, Saudi Arabia and a couple of other Arab countries are talking through their asses. If they wanted Hezassholes not to exist, they would not exist. I put more stock in their actions than their words. They have been known to lie like rugs.

When I see them going into Lebanon and dismantling the Hezassholes terrorist group, I will believe them. They don't give a fuck about Lebanon, and are willing to sacrafice its people just to take a swipe at Israel.

Brent Gilliard said...

It's hardly a stretch to think that Saudi Arabia's condemnation of Hezbollah was pro forma (to put it politely), but you are over-generalizing when you paint every country from Egypt to Iran with the same brush.

Expecting Arab countries to disarm Hezbollah by force out of the goodness of their hearts is naive. Hezbollah is no threat to Syria.

We never expected the Soviets to assasinate Castro for us.

On the greater issue of how to tackle terrorism: We cannot protect our principles by abondoning our principles.

Honey Pot said...

The fact is this Brent. The muslim world wants the jews to no longer exist. The christians are the next ones on their agenda to rid the earth of. Everyone in the civilized world ignoring these two facts is not going to make these facts go away. You cannot negotiate with a culture/political system/religion whose aim is to annihilate you, in the name of their fucked up god. The civilized world cannot keep pretending that the muslim culture/religion is even close to being civilized.

Ian Scott said...

"The fact is this Brent. The muslim world wants the jews to no longer exist"

Just because something is a fantasy in your head, does not make it a fact.

Your above statement is not a fact.

What is a fact is that SOME Muslims have grievances with Zionism. Not Judaism. Repeat this over and over: Zionism does not mean Judaism.

Although I'll grant you, some Jews think they two are the same. But Judaism is a religion, Zionism is a political movement. They are not the same.

As I have pointed out before to you, and provided sources for the assertion, Arab States, which include Muslims, have offered a guarantee of recognition of Israel for 50% of what would is 100% required under International Law of Israel, (not that I personally give a hoot about "international law," however Israel has signed on to the UN, not me) as well as Israel recognizing a State of Palestine.

It was Israel that rejected the peace offering due to their own politically ambitious goals which included increased territory.

That is a FACT. That is NOT a fantasy in someone's head.

"The christians are the next ones on their agenda to rid the earth of.

You've seen this official agenda? This is just another fantasy in your head.

But regardless, I'm not a Christian or a Jew. All the more reason I guess, I don't need to give a shit about the religious tribal wars that go back centuries.

"You cannot negotiate with a culture/political system/religion whose aim is to annihilate you, in the name of their fucked up god."

Interesting you would say this. The God of Islam is the God Of Abraham, which is the God Of Judaism, and the God of Christianity.

When you say that their god is a fucked up god, you are also implicating the God of the Jews and the God of the Christians.

Brent Gilliard said...

Why can't we all just get along?

"Harmony and understanding
Sympathy and trust abounding
No more falsehoods or derisions
Golden living dreams of visions
Mystic crystal revalation
And the mind's true liberation
Aquarius!
Aquarius!"

:P

Honey Pot said...

yeah Ian, everyone's god is fucked up. It is just that most gods have evolved, and could even be considered sort of hip. Not too much of that feeding the christians to the lions, and spanish inquisitions going on....except of course in the middle east. Stonings and beheadings in the name of your god, must even give you pause to consider it might be a bit of a barbaric cult.

Ian Scott said...

Yup, I agree it's quite barbaric.

Some folks' god has evolved so much, it's become the power of the state. And the state is just as barabaric; perhaps not with stonings and beheadings - but no - today more efficient ways of being barbaric are used.

The US kills people by injection now, instead of cutting off their heads. The end result though is still the same.

The US uses "guidance missiles" to kill, instead of sending in their own troops with bayonets. Not long ago, it was using phosphorous gas to kill people in the jungles of Viet Nam.

Blood thirst hasn't changed much at all. Just the methods.

Honey Pot said...

What would be your suggestion to resolve the issue Ian? You are not one of those dumb fuckers who do not see the middleeast, and its fucked up beyond repair, culture/religion/politicial system, as a threat to our way of life do you? They hate us and our way of life with every fibre of their being Ian.

Would you do a James Looney and sit in the middle of a theatre of war and pass out daises?

If the Hezzassholes are allowed to annhilate Israel, we will be next. The civilized world knows this. They are not going to allow it to happen. Iran and Syria, two uncivlized countries who hate Israel, know this. They make one fucking move, and they will be blown into oblivion.

It is in the best interest of Lebanon to stop supporting the muslin terrorist Hezassholes.

Honey Pot said...

It is my best interest to support Israel and its war against the muslim terrorist. I just tore down the kitchen curtians and tried them on. I look fat in them. There is no fucking way I am wearing them as the official dress code under a muslim dictatorship.

Ian Scott said...

"If the Hezzassholes are allowed to annhilate Israel, we will be next"

*Snort*

Boy, those boys better get your mind and intelligence to work for them so they can come up with a plan on how to "annihilate" us! Amazing how much power some "fucktwits" can have, huh?

"I just tore down the kitchen curtians and tried them on. I look fat in them."

I bet you do!

Pietr said...

Honey Pot, you are absolutely right.
Anybody with even an elementary understanding of the Koran will realise that we are the infidel; while Jesus and Moses are recognised as prophets, Mohammed is supposed to be the one representing the true way, and he calls on his followers to do unspeakable violence to us if we do not follow his ways.
They hate Christians, they hate Jews, they hate homosexuals, they hate women;for all their 'avowed' respect you have to look at what they actually do.
They murder people who decide to have sex without the permission of their families and preachers.They murder homosexuals.
They don't even do it by lethal injection-they do it as a 5000 year-old bloodsport, to spread the guilt and further bind the adherents into the Sharia system.
So-called 'moderates' do not dare dispute the authority of Mohammed; they just lack the guts and integrity to do his bidding-but they admire those who do.

In the battle of ideologies, they seek to win in advance by turning 'tolerance' into lethal surrender over issues such as representation of Mohammed by image.

Obviously, they don't want to individuate Mohammed; that way every absurd preacher wagging his forefinger can be regarded as the 'face' of mohammed.

gm said...

Until Muslim clerics wrestle the faith away from the powerful minority of their faith's radical fundamentalists, Islam will produce a disproportionate number of terrorists. When you drill into kids' heads from an early age (as thousands of Muslim schools do worldwide), that Jews and Christians and other "infidels" (non-Muslims) are no better than animals to be slaughtered, then you have acted to translate bad ideas into bad consequences. And while adults have the power to reject what they have learned as children and must consequently be held accountable it is also a fact that kids into whom such ideas are sledgehammered from an early age are likely to take far longer to reject them; for some, it will become psychologically impossible. Many will not do so in time to avoid the dead-end of terrorism and murder.

Honey Pot said...

Did anyone see any protest signs or comments from the non-political demonstration that read "get the Hezzasholes out of Lebananon, before Israel is left with no choice except to obliterate the whole country?"

Any condemnation by the protesters of the Hezassholes terrorist for hiding behind the woman and children of Lebanon to launch attacks against Israel?

I don't think they get it yet. Canada will no longer support nor tolerate terrorist actions. It is hitting too close to home.

Brent Gilliard said...

On the protests:

I would protest too if it were my family and friends in the line of fire. I wouldn't care if Hezbollah was at fault for hiding in the civilian population or if Israel was acting in self-defence. People don't act rationally when they have strong emotions about something.

On "no longer support":

I really don't think we can call this a paradigm shift for Canada.

Any cracking down on terrorism (over and above what we've been doing all along) is probably more in fear of what a restricted border with the US will do than anything else.

Any Canadian PM is just playing politics when weighing in on the M.E. If Harper had come down on either side, the situation would be little different. We have approx zero influence with Israel or Hezbollah. Siding with Israel will win votes in places like the 519 and 905. He's not going to get seats in Toronto or Montreal in a million years, so why court the immigrant vote?

MapMaster said...

Respectfully, I would suggest that if one had family in friends in Lebanon, one should at the most be asking and hoping, not protesting and demanding. The government is hardly responsible for their being over there in the first place. An organized protest and a list of demands drawn up in advance is not exactly a sign of emotional distress overcoming reason. They know quite well what they are doing.

Politics requires that Harper make at least some sort of statement or two on the subject, but it would appear to me that he has been rather "measured" himself, to use an overly critiqued word, in his response. I could not discount the idea that he is playing politics with the issue, of course, but it is rather a little more helpful to have a politician weigh specifically on one side or another than to try to play both sides, like the previous government.

Speaking of which, the government of Canada has never rhetorically supported terrorism, but the PLO has been the recipient of government grants for years, for God's sake!

Brent Gilliard said...

I didn't mean to suggest that every protester is a mourning widow. At best, the people organizing these things have hearts bigger than brains. At worst, they are manipulating worried friends and relatives (and peaceniks and new democrats and the rest of the regular protest fare) to their own Islamofacist ends.

Hopefully it is not the latter case, because 3000 is an awful lot of manipulated protesters for London.

Honey Pot said...

It is a very paradigm shift for Canada. Harper basically told the terrorist and their supporting countries that they are all a bunch of bloodthirsty fuckwits. Of course he stated it in a much more measured manner.

Now who would be down there protesting with the Lebanese-Canadians? That would be the United Church and Cupe, two self-professed anti-Semitic groupies.

We are all in danger when terrorism is glorified and imported, from the fucked up world of the middle east.

Brent Gilliard said...

Harper basically told the terrorist and their supporting countries that they are all a bunch of bloodthirsty fuckwits.

That's not how I remember it at all.

The PM, on July 17 after meeting with the G8:

"We sent a firm message that the extremists who committed cross-border murder and kidnaped israeli soldiers bear the responsibility for instigating the crises in Lebanon and Gaza. We recognize Israel's right to self determination, but called on Israel to exercise self-restraint and to avoid civilian casualties and damage to civilian infrastructure."

His initial defense of Israel got all the press, but his later-stated caveats got less attention.

(you can listen to the statement at the PMO website)

Honey Pot said...

Israel is being more than measured. They could just go in there, hit them with everything they got, and it would be game over bird.