Wednesday, February 15, 2006

Reality Check

From the London Free Press, an excerpt from today's Vox Pop submission.

Robby Smink on the latest minimum wage hike in Ontario:

Behind all this seems to be some kind of false assumption that every job, part-time or otherwise, should be able to sustain a middle-class Canadian standard of living.

Jobs are not created to support anyone's lifestyle. They are made to allow employers to fulfil their company's workforce needs, at a fair market price that they can afford. That they provide benefits, personal, financial, psychological, social or otherwise to workers is a bonus, but hardly a requirement.

By pricing millions of entry-level jobs out of existence, the government's cure is worse that the disease, of poverty, that it's trying to combat.

It will help to increase prices, make it harder to start up a business and create new jobs, lead to higher unemployment especially among our youth, encourage dependence on government social programs such as welfare, place an added strain on food banks and United Way Agencies, increase inflation and put a drag on the whole provincial economy.

The government has no business regulating anyone's wages except those of its own employees. Let the marketplace decide. Wages should be negotiated between employer and employee, just as they were for more than 400 years before we became Pierre Trudeau's experiment in socialism.

16 comments:

Honey Pot said...

Robby, Robby, Robby, the only problem with having people working for nothing is....well, they don't want to. The feudal system just doesn't work Robby. The peasants get pissed off, and the next thing you know they are storming the castle, and taking what they want. Did you ever work for a living Robby? not a fun thing when you are breaking your foot trying to shut the door on the cash registers at Timmies, coz they are over stuffed with dosh. Profit sharing is the way to go. Think that kind of system would work well.

Lisa said...

And the problem with the welfare state is that it is often more profitable NOT to work. The current system of 'legal' widespread plunder would quickly fall apart if we all joined the line asking for free stuff. Let's give it a try.

Honey Pot said...

It would also fall apart, and much quicker, if the peasants refused to work for nothing. Let's do that instead, demand fair pay for work and profit sharing. That would work.

MapMaster said...

Huh? What's this about working for nothing?

Let the marketplace decide. Wages should be negotiated between employer and employee

Who's going to negotiate nothing for themselves in exchange for their manual or intellectual labour? If you're not making minimum wage, that's precisely what you are always doing. By all means, demand fair pay or profit sharing, whatever you think your labour is worth — if your demands and the employer's offer cannot meet somewhere in negotiation, you are free to sell your labour elsewhere and the employer is free to purchase it elsewhere. Would you want to give that up for such a low standard?

gm said...

Why doesn't the Government just pass a law and give all of us $1,000,000.00.

Honey Pot said...

That might work, if the employer gave a fiddler's fuck about an employee, but you would go a long way to find that in an employer. The name of the game is greed, and I think everyone getting a piece of the pie is preferable, and a much more civilized way to go about it.

MapMaster said...

Any employer who doesn't give a "fiddler's fuck" about his employees isn't going to stay in business for long unless he can find employees who don't give a "fiddler's fuck" for themselves.

Honey Pot said...

Check out Timmies, and all the Macjobs out there. They dont' care if their employee's fall dead on the floor in front of them ,due to starvation. Give me a break, there is no such thing as a kind and caring capatilist.They don't have to care, they have money. Just human nature not to care about others when you are doing well yourself. It is collective misery that builds civilizations, nothing else.

Pietr said...

Power to the people!Let's all demand what we're worth!
That's freedom!
But wait a minute;we had that for years, and people like Honey tell us it isn't enough.
I know!Power to some people!Let's load the dice in favour of the poor!But what if they stop being poor?
Oh well. Not to worry. As long as we don't help the evil Capitalists.
Eat the Rich!
And gimme a job!
Where from?
I dunno; just gimmme!
That's what governments do.Job creation.But don't give me a job on a Job Creation Scheme!My pretend job has to be real.

Honey Pot said...

They are not evil, more like they just don't care. Sometimes the peasants have to get uppity to get their point of view across. Lower paying jobs are real too. More real than most.Very tangible actually.You can feel them in the poor health you suffer from not making enough money to live, and being treated as a robot or pack animal. Just the way things are. Not right, uncivilized even, but a fact.

Anonymous said...

Cmon Lisa... do you really believe the crap that you posted, that it's more PROFITABLE to not work? Have you ever had to rely on welfare or ODSP to sustain you? Obviously not, or you wouldn't be so misguided.

And gm, you're on the right track, even though giving people $1m isn't the solution. Better I think to bring in a Guaranteed Annual Income, enough to give those who are most disadvantaged a minimal but humane existence, and toss away all the other social programs and the huge administrative costs that are associated with them.

Lisa said...

Anonymous:

Do you really believe the muddled garbage you just typed? Who is to decide how much this "guaranteed annual income" will be? Who defines "a minimal but humane existence"? The thieving government I suppose who will fund the project with trough cash? Why not turn all revenue over to the government, who will then pay every man, woman and child the exact same wage, irrespective of desert or ability, thereby finally achieveing a truly Egalitarian State?

The fundamental point is that people do not have a "right" to that which they do not earn. The 'right to life' does not mean you have a right to the 'bare minimum' that will sustain that life. Theft is theft, no matter the amount, no matter the supposed "legality" of the deed. If it is wrong to steal my neighbour's TV, surely it is also wrong that the government takes a portion of my earnings and gives them to my neighbour.

Mike said...

Better I think to bring in a Guaranteed Annual Income, enough to give those who are most disadvantaged a minimal but humane existence, and toss away all the other social programs and the huge administrative costs that are associated with them.

Hot diggity -- my ticket out of the overworked, overtaxed middle class! I can feel the opportunity cost of working for a living slowly rise.

Don't get me wrong, I like my job, I'm paid well for work that's absorbing, and I work with brilliant people on intellectually challenging tasks at a great company. But they have to pay me for it, because I don't do hard work for free. It eats into time I could spend on personal projects. I have to put so much time and trouble into feeding, clothing, and housing myself -- I'd prefer it if all that trouble were pushed onto someone else. I don't care how it's done, so long as it's guaranteed.

I have many hobbies that I love, but with which I could never realistically expect to earn an honest living. Removing the threat of homelessness with a Guaranteed Income would be a great help in achieving my goals and dreams.

With a capital-G Guaranteed Income, I could quit my job and stay at home getting drunk and playing guitar. Ten or fifteen minutes of practice a day is not enough for an untalented guy like myself to get really good. Even if I don't get up till 2 PM most days I would still have so much more free time than I do now.

And this blog would be a perfect place to make fun of the altruists still out there bothering to waste half of their lives working so that I can sit at home in a wasted stupor eating potato chips, screwing around with Ableton Live, and reading the news on the internet! Thanks, Suckers.

I tell you, I'm a responsible enough guy, but I'd love to have an extra 8 hours a day to screw around and follow my idle dreams with a nation of chumps getting stuck with my bills.

Pietr said...

And this blog would be a perfect place to make fun of the altruists still out there bothering to waste half of their lives working so that I can sit at home in a wasted stupor eating potato chips, screwing around with Ableton Live, and reading the news on the internet! Thanks, Suckers.

Damn it Mike!You've seen right through me!
All that driving around the countryside listening to Heavy Metal earns me enough to stay afloat and do what else I like later.
And, Honey, thanks for saying we aren't 'evil'.
But Freedom means never having to say you 'care'.

gm said...

I am an evil capatalist just ask one of my employees!
The hate filled marxist clap trap is good for a laugh thanks!
I could just as easily tell everyone about the shop lifting, employee theft, break ins, broken windows, etc. but of course the people stuck with pst, gst, ei, cpp, etc are all evil.
Perhaps some of you could start your own business then you can tell me all about heartless employers! (of course they exist but hardly the majority)

Anonymous said...

GM, perhaps if you paid your employees better they wouldn't steal from you. Look at the employee/thieves as entrepreneurs. They are just organizing their own incentive program, coz you won't.