Monday, August 8, 2005

We must not extradite Marc

Marco den Ouden:

Emery is a brilliant man, a superb speaker, a dynamic entrepreneur and a committed activist for the promotion of freedom. With his smarts he could have made a million dollars in any endeavour he set his mind to. But he chose marijuana activism because he saw it as focal point for all that is wrong with government - the nanny state that professes to know better than you do what is good for you.
den Ouden then asks whether we would have extradited the Seagrams back when the American law enforcement industy was cashing in on alcohol prohibition. That was back before the repeal of the 18th amendment made it necessary to change focus to non-alcoholic intoxicants, so as to save the phony baloney jobs of the Eliot Ness'.


CharLeBois said...

I can't believe I'm hearing this kind of nonsense from The London Fog. Been spending to much time at The Hippie Sanctuary have we?

The Seagrams weren't personally couriering their spirits south of the border. The United States has every right to request an extradition, and if the evidence shows that he did indeed violate their laws on their soil we have an obligation to send him down.

Just like other very intelligent corporate execs, Emery got greedy and now he'll get what's coming to him.

Mike said...

I'll interpret the "Hippie Sanctuary" crack as the conservative mirror image of a leftist calling me a "neo-liberal" who wants to starve the poor, when I challenge his particular dogmas.

Can you explain in simple language the wrong that Marc has done?

gm said...

He broke the LAW. Life in jail for a victimless crime is no justice. Does it not matter if it be just or unjust eh? The fact that it may not be against the in OUR country seems to matter little.
It is obvious that pot should be treated as a capitalist entity. There are some things the state should never interfere and this is one of many.

CharLeBois said...

No Mike, The Hippie Sanctuary as in the infamous pot head café and lounge on 944 Oxford St. E.

You run a website called The London Fog and have never been? Rough..

As for what Marc did wrong, The Globe explained it best... if someone yahoo in the US was mailing 9mm ammunition to The Hells Angels in London Ontario to protest Cdn firearms laws we'd all be screaming bloody murder. Regardless of what you think of marijuana, both acts are against the law in the other country, and both sets of laws should be respected, because, you know, basic respect for law & order is a plus in my books.

MapMaster said...

Not necessarily in response to charlebois, but from a conservative to the many law and order conservatives who, failing an argument for their law, attack the man: That Emery "pleads in his defense" to fight extradition is not a mark against him — everyone, guilty or innocent, is entitled to and usually inclined to fend against his own punishment. And what should even then placate the "do the crime, do the time" crowd, Emery has said he is willing to spend 20 years behind bars to galvanize opinion against criminalization of marijuana (approval or disapproval of his motives is irrelevant to the substance of the attacks).

But to charlebois: I can't speak for Mike, but I've never been to the Hippie Sanctuary myself — I don't like pot, or most hippies either for that matter, so I leave it alone and it leaves me alone. The precept of respect for law and order could conceivably have some sentimental appeal were law and order to have respect for people. Once we recognize that laws are not an immutable fact of nature but are artefacts of mankind's attempt to control his relationships with each other, to which the ends almost always change with arbitrary political fashion, their automatic association with good should end. Not that I doubt your intentions are usually good, but where does the plus-mark in your books come from?

Mike said...

I'm all for law and order. That's why I hate to see the law brought into disrepute with arbitrary and immoral laws*.

You didn't tell me what Marc did that was wrong, apart from some analogy that has nothing in common with the matter at hand. Marc was not mailing bullets, which can be used to kill people. He mailed seeds, which can be used by people who want to get high. Whatever one may think about gun laws, equating these two things is about as reasonable as equating your comment with a call for genocide.

You should be thanking Marc for putting his freedom on the line to defend law and order.

You subvert the legitimacy of real laws (those defending life, liberty, and property) when you defend a cynical perversion of government force that destroys peaceful people who have done wrong to no one.

Again, and without recourse to bogus analogy this time: what wrong did Marc do?

*(On the other hand, coming from a similar philosophical standpoint, FR's headsonpikes opposes any legalisation of marijuana. He sees the drug war as a valuable object lesson for observant kids, teaching them that their teachers and the police will tell obvious lies without a twinge of shame or embarrassment. This, suggests headsonpikes, sows the seeds for a mind open to a mature evaluation of equally bogus notions like "human rights" and "universal health care" -- to pull a few turds out of the same legal punchbowl as the "drug war", but with my left hand this time.

What seeds these laws plant!)

Jay said...

"He got cocky and greedy and now he'll get what's coming to him"

He deserves to be locked up in a federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison -- for *what*?

"Hatred of the good - for being good" where have I heard that before?

The Law is The Law "argument" is actually a useful cover for envy and irrational hatred of "pot heads"

Amoral frauds. When the guns turn on them, we'll be sure to hear plenty of yelping...

MapMaster said...

Loved the Tintin image, though. It's like you've been spying on our editorial meetings!

gm said...

Why should counter revolutionaries go to jail for having a typewriter...because the Soviets had decreed it against the Law.

Dogma should not over ride our reason.
Dogma does tend to overide many of the southpaws.

Anonymous said...

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